Historic Trial Transcripts
Louis J. Weichman: Testimony
May 13, 1865
​
a witness for the prosecution, being duly sworn, testified as follows:—
By the JUDGE ADVOCATE:
Q. Will you state whether you know John H. Surratt?
A. I do.
Q. When did you first make his acquaintance?
A. My acquaintance with John H. Surratt commenced in the fall of 1859, at St. Charles’s College, Md.
Q. How long were you together?
A. We left college in the summer of 1862, in July, together.
Q. When did you renew your acquaintance with him here in this city?
A. I renewed my acquaintance with him in 1863, in January, in this city.
Q. When did you begin to board at the house of his mother, Mrs. Surratt, a prisoner here?
A. The 1st of November, 1864.
Q. In this city?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In what part of the city?
A. H Street, between Sixth and Seventh, No. 541.
Q. You speak of Mrs. Surratt, who is sitting near you there?
A. Yes, sir: she is the lady.
Q. State when you first made the acquaintance of the prisoner, Dr. Samuel A. Mudd?
A. It was about the 15th of January, 1865.
Q. State under what circumstances.
A. I was passing down Seventh Street, in company with Mr. Surratt; and, when opposite Odd Fellows’ Hall, some one called, “Surratt, Surratt!” and, turning round, Mr. Surratt recognized an old acquaintance of his, Dr. Samuel A. Mudd, of Charles County, Md.
Q. The prisoner at the bar?
A. Yes, sir: that is the gentleman there (pointing to Samuel A. Mudd). Mr. Surratt introduced Dr. Mudd to me; and Dr. Mudd introduced Mr. Booth, who was in company with him, to both of us.
Q. He and Booth were walking together in the street?
A. Yes, sir. They were coming up Seventh Street, and we were going down.
Q. You mean J. Wilkes Booth?
A. Yes, sir: J. Wilkes Booth.
Q. Where did you go to from that, when you went?
A. Booth then invited us to his room at the National Hotel.
Q. What occurred there?
A. Booth told us to be seated; and he ordered cigars and wines to the room for four. Dr. Mudd then went out into the passage, and called Booth out, and had a private conversation with him. Booth and Dr. Mudd came in, and they then called Surratt out.
Q. Both of them called him out?
A. No, sir: Booth went out with Surratt; and then they came in, and all three went out together, and had a private conversation in the passage, leaving me alone.
Q. How long did that conversation last?
A. It must have been about fifteen or twenty minutes.
Q. You did not hear what it was?
A. No, sir: I do not know the nature of the conversation. I was seated on a lounge at the time, near the window. On returning to the room the last time, Dr. Mudd came to me, and seated himself by my side on the settee; and he apologized for his private conversation, stating that Booth and he had some private business; that Booth wished to purchase his farm.
Q. Did you see any maps or papers of that sort used?
A. No, sir. Booth at one time took out the back of an envelope, and make marks on it with a pencil. I should not consider it writing, but more in the direction of roads or lines. Surratt and Booth and Dr. Mudd were at that time seated round the table,—a centre-table,—in the centre of the room.
Q. Did you see the marks?
A. No, sir: I just saw the motion of the pencil. Booth also came to me, and stated that he wished to purchase Dr. Mudd’s farm. Dr. Mudd had previously stated to me that he did not care about selling his farm to Booth, because Booth was not going to give him enough.
Q. But you did not hear a word spoken yourself in regard to the farm in their conference?
A. No, sir: I do not know the nature of the conversation they had at all.
Q. I understood you to say you did not hear any of their private conversation?
A. No, sir: I did not.
Q. You only saw the motion of the pencil as they were marking?
A. No, sir. What their conversation was I do not know.
Q. You continued to board at the house of Mrs. Surratt, the prisoner?
A. I boarded at Mrs. Surratt’s house up to the time of the assassination.
Q. After this interview at the National Hotel, will you state whether Booth called frequently at Mrs. Surratt’s?
A. He called there frequently.
Q. Whom did he call to see?
A. He generally called for Mr. Surratt,—John H. Surratt; and, in the absence of John H. Surratt, he would call for Mrs. Surratt.
Q. Were their interviews always apart from other persons, or in the presence of other persons?
A. They were always apart. I have been in the company of Booth in the parlor; but Booth has taken Surratt out of the room and taken him up-stairs, and engaged in private conversation in rooms up-stairs. Booth would sometimes, when there, engage in a general sort of conversation, and would then say, “John can you go up-stairs, and spare me a word?” They would go up-stairs, and engage in private conversation which would sometimes last two or three hours.
Q. Did the same thing ever occur with Mrs. Surratt?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever seen the prisoner, Atzerodt?
A. I have.
Q. Do you recognize him here?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you seen him at Mrs. Surratt’s?
A. He came to Mrs. Surratt’s house, as near as I can remember, about three weeks after I formed the acquaintance of Booth.
Q. For whom did he inquire?
A. He inquired for John H. Surratt or Mrs. Surratt, as he said.
Q. Did you ever see him with Booth there, or only with Surratt?
A. I have never seen him in the house with Booth.
Q. How often did he call?
A. He must have been at the house ten or fifteen times.
Q. What was the name by which he was known to the ladies of the house?
A. The young ladies of the house could not comprehend the name that he gave. They understood that he came from Port Tobacco, the lower portion of Maryland; and, instead of calling him by his proper name, they gave him the nickname of “Port Tobacco.”
Q. Did you ever meet him on the street, and go with him—you and Mrs. Surratt—to the theatre? and under what circumstances?
A. Yes, sir. I met him at the corner of Seventh Street and Pennsylvania Avenue about the time that Booth played the part of Pescara in “The Apostate.” Booth had given Surratt two complimentary tickets on that occasion; and we went down, and met Atzerodt at the corner of Seventh Street and Pennsylvania Avenue, and told him that we were going. He said he was going along too; and at the theater we met David E. Herold.
Q. Do you see him, sir?
A. Yes, sir: there he is [pointing out David E. Herold, who smiled and nodded in recognition of the witness.] There was also another gentleman there, who boarded in the house,—Mr. Holahan: we met him.
Q. Where did you meet him?
A. At the theatre. We remained in the theatre till the play was over; and, on leaving the theatre, the five of us left together,—Mr. Surratt, Mr. Holahan, and myself in company; and we went as far as the corner of Tenth and E Streets; and, on turning round, Surratt noticed that Atzerodt and Herold did not follow him, and told me to go back. I went back, and found Atzerodt and Herold in a restaurant adjoining the theatre, taking very confidentially with Booth; and on my approaching them, they separated, and Booth said, “Mr. Weichmann, will you not come and take a drink?” And we approached the counter, and took a drink; and Booth introduced me to a gentleman there whose name I do not remember, but whose face I have seen very frequently around town here. We left the restaurant, and joined the other two gentlemen on E Street, and then went to Kloman’s and had some oysters. We there separated; Mr. John H. Surratt and myself and Mr. Holahan going home, and the others going down Seventh Street.
Q. You say, that to this conversation at the National, which was stated to be about buying a farm, John H. Surratt was a party?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. They did not explain to you what he had to do with the buying of Dr. Mudd’s farm by Booth?
A. No, sir: they did not.
Q. Do you know where John H. Surratt kept his horse in this city?
A. John H. Surratt stated to me that he had two horses, and that he kept them at Howard’s stable, on G Street, between Sixth and Seventh.
Q. Did you ever see the prisoner, Atzerodt, there?
A. Yes, sir. I saw him there the day of the assassination.
Q. What time in the day?
A. At about half-past two o’clock.
Q. What did he seem to be doing there?
A. He wished to hire a horse. I had been sent there by Mrs. Surratt for the purpose of hiring a buggy; and, when I went to the stable, I saw Atzerodt there, and asked him what he wanted. He said he was going to hire a horse; and he asked Mr. Brooks in my presence [that is the name by which the stable-keeper is known to me] if he could have a horse, and Mr. Brooks told he could not. Then we both left, and went as far as the post-office. I had a letter to drop in the post-office; and we went down F Street towards Tenth. Since that time I have never seen him.
Q. Were those horses that were kept there Surratt’s or Booth’s?
A. I would state, that, on the Tuesday previous to the Friday of the assassination, I was also sent by Mrs. Surratt to the National Hotel to see Booth for the purpose of getting his buggy. She wished me to drive her into the country on that day; and Booth said that he had sold the buggy, but that he would give me ten dollars instead, and I should hire a buggy. He spoke about the horses that he had kept at Brooks’s stable; and I remarked to him, “Why, I thought they were Surratt’s horses!” Said he, “No: they are mine.”
Q. I understand you to say that Booth did give you the ten dollars?
A. Yes, sir: he gave me the ten dollars.
Q. Did you drive Mrs. Surratt out on that day?
A. I did.
Q. To what point in the country?
A. We left the city about nine o’clock, and reached Surrattsville at about half-past twelve o’clock on Tuesday, the 11th day of April.
Q. Did you return that day?
A. Yes, sir. We remained at Surrattsville about half an hour—probably not that long; and Mrs. Surratt stated that she went there for the purpose of seeing Mr. Nothe, who owed her some money.
Q. Will you state whether, on the following Friday, that is, the day of the assassination, you drove Mrs. Surratt to the country?
A. Yes, sir. We left about half-past two o’clock in the afternoon. She herself gave me the money on that occasion,—a ten-dollar note; and I paid six dollars for the buggy.
Q. Where did you drive her to?
A. To Surrattsville; arriving there about half-past four.
Q. Did you stop at the house of Mr. Lloyd, who keeps tavern there?
A. Yes, sir. Mrs. Surratt went into the parlor, and I remained outside a portion of the time; and a portion of the time I went into the bar-room, until Mrs. Surratt sent for me.
Q. What time did you leave on your return?
A. About half-past six o’clock.
Q. Is it about two hours’ drive?
A. Yes, sir: a person can get down there very easily in two hours when the roads are good.
Q. Will you state whether you remember, some time in the month of March, of a man calling at Mrs. Surratt’s where you were boarding, and giving himself the name of Wood, and inquiring for John H. Surratt?
A. Yes, sir: I myself went to open the door; and he inquired for Mr. Surratt. I told him Mr. Surratt was not at home; but I would introduce him to the family if he desired it. He thereupon expressed a desire to see Mrs. Surratt; and I accordingly introduced him, having first asked his name. He gave the name of Wood.
Q. Do you recognize him among these prisoners?
A. That is the man (pointing to Lewis Payne, one of the accused).
Q. He called himself Wood?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How did he remain with Mrs. Surratt?
A. That evening, he stopped in the house all night. He had supper served up to him in my own room. I brought him supper from the kitchen.
Q. When was that?
A. As near as I can remember, it must have been about eight weeks previous to the assassination. Have no exact knowledge of the date.
Q. Did he bring any baggage with him to the house?
A. No, sir. He had a black overcoat on, and a black frock-coat, with gray pants, at that time.
Q. You say he remained until the next day?
A. He remained until the next morning, leaving in the earliest train for Baltimore.
Q. Do you remember whether, some weeks after this, the same man called again?
A. I should think it was about three weeks afterwards that he called again; and I again went to the door, and again ushered him into the parlor; and, in the mean time, I had forgotten his name, and I asked him his name. That time he gave the name of Payne.
Q. Was it the same man?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he have an interview then with Mrs. Surratt?
A. He was ushered into the parlor. Mrs. Surratt, Miss Surratt, and Miss Honora Fitzpatrick were present.
Q. How long did he remain?
A. He remained about three days at that time. He represented himself as a Baptist preacher: he also said that he had been in prison in Baltimore for about a week, and that he had taken the oath of allegiance, and was going to become a good and loyal citizen.
Q. Are not the family of Mrs. Surratt and Mrs. Surratt herself Catholics?
A. Yes, sir. Mr. Surratt is himself a Catholic, and was a student of divinity at the same college.
Q. Did you hear any explanation made why a Baptist preacher should go there seeking hospitality?
A. No, sir. They only looked upon it as odd, and laughed at it. Mrs. Surratt herself remarked that he was a great looking Baptist preacher.
Q. Did they not seem to recognize him as the “Wood” of former days who had been there?
A. Yes, sir. In the course of conversation, one of the young ladies called him Wood; and then I recollected, that, on his first visit, he had given the name of Wood.
Q. How was he dressed on the last occasion?
A. He was dressed in gray,—a complete suit of gray.
Q. Did he have any baggage with him on the last occasion?
A. Yes, sir. He had a linen coat, and two linen shirts.
Q. Did you observe any traces of disguise about him, or attempted preparations for disguise?
A. I would say, that one day, returning from my office, I found a false mustache on the table in my room. I took the mustache, and threw it into a little toilet-box I had on the table. This man Payne searched around the table, and inquired for his mustache. I was sitting on the chair, and did not say any thing. I have retained the mustache since, and it was found in my baggage: it was among a box of paints that I had in my trunk.
Q. Did you ever see Payne during that visit, and John H. Surratt, together in their room by themselves?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What were they occupied in doing?
A. It was on the same day. On returning from my office, I went up stairs to the third story; and I found John H. Surratt and this man Payne seated on a bed, playing with bowie-knives. It was the occasion of Payne’s last visit.
Q. Were there any other weapons about them?
A. Two revolvers, and four sets of new spurs.
Q. [Exhibiting the spur identified by the last witness as found in the room in the Kirkwood House.] Were the spurs like this?
A. They were. That is one of the spurs.
Q. [Exhibiting the bowie-knife identified by the last witness as found in the room of the Kirkwood House.] Is that the bowie-knife?
A. I do not recognize that as the bowie-knife. It was a smaller one.
Q. But you know the spur? You are satisfied as to that?
A. Yes, sir: there were three spurs similar to this in a closet in my room when I was last there; and those three I am sure belonged to the eight that had been purchased by Surratt.
Q. Did you say there was a brace of pistols?
A. Two long navy revolvers.
Q. [Exhibiting the revolver identified by the last witness as found in the room at the Kirkwood House.] Is that the pistol?
A. That looks like it.
Q. Was it a round barrel like that, or octangular?
A. The barrel was not round: it was octangular. It was about the same size, though.
Q. Do you remember having gone with John H. Surratt to the Herndon House for the purpose of renting a room?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time was that?
A. It must have been on or about the 19th of March.
Q. For whom did he wish to rent this room?
A. He went to the door, and inquired for Mrs. Mary Murray; and when Mrs. Mary Murray came, he stated that he wished to have a private interview with her. She did not seem to comprehend; and said he, “Perhaps Miss Anna Ward has spoken to you about this room. Did she not speak to you about engaging a room for a delicate gentleman, who was to have his meals sent up to his room?” Then Mrs. Murray recollected: and Mr. Surratt said that he would like to have the room for the following Monday; that the gentleman would take possession of it on Monday. It was the Monday previous to the 31st of April. I think it was the 27th of March that the room was to have been taken possession of.
Q. The name of the person was given?
A. No, sir: there was no name mentioned.
Q. Did you afterwards learn that the prisoner, Payne, was at that house,—the Herndon House?
A. Yes, sir. I met this man, Atzerodt, one day on the street; and I asked him where he was going, and he said that he was going to see Payne; and then I asked him, “Is it Payne who is at the Herndon House?” and he said, “Yes.”
Q. That was after the visit of John H. Surratt made there to engage the room?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you ever met the prisoner, Herold, at Mrs. Surratt’s?
A. I met him there once.
Q. Where else have you met him?
A. I met him on the occasion of the visit to the theatre when Booth played Pescara. I also met Herold at Mrs. Surratt’s, in the country, in the spring of 1863, when I first made Mrs. Surratt’s acquaintance. He was there at that time with a party of musicians, who were serenading some county officers who had been elected; and then again I met him in the summer of 1864, at a church in the country,—the Piscataway Church; and then in the theatre, and once at Mrs. Surratt’s house. These are the only times, to my recollection, that I have met him.
Q. Do you know either of the prisoners, Arnold or O’Laughlin?
A. No, sir.
Q. What knowledge have you, if any, of John H. Surratt having gone to Richmond?
A. About the 17th of March, 1865, a woman by the name of Mrs. Slater came to the house, and stopped there one night. This lady went to Canada and Richmond. On Saturday, the 23d of March, Mr. Surratt drove her into the country about eight o’clock in the morning: he had hired a two-horse team, white horses, at Brooks’s. He left in company with Mrs. Slater; and Mrs. Surratt was also in the buggy.
Q. It was understood that John H. Surratt went to Richmond?
A. Yes, sir. On returning, Mrs. Surratt told me that he had gone to Richmond with Mrs. Slater. This Mrs. Slater, to the best of my knowledge, was to have met a man by the name of Howe there, a blockade-runner. This Howe was captured on the 24th of March, and could not take her back to Richmond; so Surratt took her back.
Q. Was Mrs. Slater a blockade-runner herself?
A. I believe she was either a blockade-runner or a bearer of despatches.
Q. Did Mrs. Surratt tell you so?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know when John Surratt returned from Richmond?
A. He returned from Richmond on the occasion of the fall of Richmond,—the 3d of April.
Q. Do you know of his having brought gold with him?
A. He had about nine or eleven twenty-dollar gold-pieces in his possession.
Q. You say that money in his possession when he came back?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That was all you saw? You do not know whether he had more or not?
A. He had some greenbacks. He had about fifty dollars in greenbacks. He gave forty dollars of this gold to Mr. Holahan, and Mr. Holahan gave him sixty dollars in greenbacks for it.
Q. Did he leave the city immediately on his arrival here?
A. He remained in the house about an hour; and he told me that he was going to Montreal, and asked me to walk down the street with him to take some oysters. We went down Seventh Street and along Pennsylvania Avenue, and took some oysters.
Q. And he left immediately, did he?
A. Yes, sir: he left that evening.
Q. Saying that he was going to Canada?
A. He said he was going to Montreal. I have not seen him since.
Q. Have you seen a letter from him?
A. Yes, sir: I saw a letter from him dated St. Lawrence Hall, Montreal, Can., April 12. It was received here on the 14th of April. I also saw another letter, written to a Miss Ward: the date I do not remember; but the receipt of that letter was prior to the receipt of the letter to his mother.
Q. Did you have any conversation with him, as he passed through, about the fall of Richmond?
A. Yes, sir. He told me he did not believe it; that he had seen Benjamin and Davis, and they had told him that Richmond would not be evacuated.
Q. He said that they had told him so while he was in Richmond?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. On his arriving here, the intelligence of its fall was received, and you communicated it to him?
A. Yes, sir: I communicated it to him, and he seemed to be incredulous.
Q. Have you been to Canada yourself since?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did you learn of his whereabouts and movements there?
A. I learned that he had arrived in Montreal on the 6th of April, and left there on the 12th for the States; returning on the 18th, and engaging rooms at St. Lawrence Hall, Montreal. He left St. Lawrence Hall that night,—the night of the 18th; and he was seen to leave the house of a Mr. Porterfield in company with three others in a wagon. I did not see him there myself; but my knowledge was obtained from the register at St. Lawrence Hall. I did not arrive at Montreal until the 19th.
Q. Do you remember, early in the month of April, of Mrs. Surratt’s having sent for you, and asking you to give Mr. Booth notice that she wished to see him?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was the message which she desired to be communicated to him?
A. She merely stated that she would like to see him, and for him to come to the house.
Q. Did she state that she wished to see him on private business, or use any expression of that kind?
A. Yes, sir: she said “Private business.”
Q. What did Booth say when you communicated the message to him?
A. He said he would come to the house in the evening, as soon as he could.
Q. Did you that was in April?
A. Some time in April: early in April.
Q. Before the assassination?
A. Yes, sir. It was on the 2d of April when Mrs. Surratt sent me to the hotel; and I at that time found in Booth’s room Mr. John McCullough, the actor; and I communicated my message to Booth. I told him that Mrs. Surratt would like to see him, and he said he would come in the evening; and he did come on the evening of the 2d of April.
Q. Will you state whether, on the afternoon of the 14th of April, the day of the assassination, Mr. Booth did not call and have a private interview with Mrs. Surratt at her house?
A. I will state, that about half-past two o’clock, when I was going to the door, I saw Mr. Booth. He was in the parlor, and Mrs. Surratt was speaking to him.
Q. Were they alone?
A. Yes, sir: they were alone in the parlor.
Q. How long was it after that before you drove to the country with Mrs. Surratt?
A. He did not remain in the parlor more than three or four minutes.
Q. And was it immediately after that you and Mrs. Surratt set out for the country?
A. Yes, sir.
Cross-examined by MR. JOHNSON:
Q. How long did you live at Mrs. Surratt’s house?
A. I have been living at the house since the 1st of November, 1864. Mrs. Surratt at that time removed to the city from the country. She had rented her farm to Mr. Boyd.
Q. Had you lived with her in the country?
A. No, sir: I had visited her several times during the year 1863-4 in the country.
Q. You knew her very well at that time?
A. No, sir: not very well. I had made her acquaintance through her son. Her son was a schoolmate of mine. He had been at college with me for three years; and, when I went there, it was to exchange the usual civilities, and I always experienced the utmost kindness and courtesy.
Q. What sort of a house had she in the city,—a large or a small one? How many rooms?
A. Eight rooms,—six large rooms and two small ones.
Q. Was she in the habit of renting her rooms out?
A. Yes, sir: she has been since I have been there.
Q. Did she furnish board as well as rooms?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say young Surratt told you some time in April that he was going to Montreal. Did you ever know him to go to Montreal before that time?
A. No, sir.
Q. Had he been here through the winter of 1864-5, at his mother’s house?
A. Sometimes he was at home, and sometimes he was not. During the winter of 1864, especially in the month of November, he was down in the country almost all the time. His stay at home has not been permanent at all, because he would sometimes remain at home half a week, and go into the country the other half; and sometimes he would be three or four weeks at a time in the country.
Q. During that winter of 1864-5, was he away any time so long as that he could have gone to Canada and returned without your knowing it?
A. Yes, sir. He could have gone to Canada without my knowledge; but he could not have returned to the house without my knowledge.
Q. Have you any reason to believe, from you own knowledge, that he was in Canada in the winter of 1864-5?
A. No, sir.
Q. Were you upon intimate terms with him?
A. Very intimate, indeed.
Q. Did he ever intimate to you or anybody else, to your knowledge, that there was a purpose to assassinate the President?
A. No, sir. He stated to me in the presence of his sister, shortly after he made the acquaintance of Booth, that he was going to Europe on a cotton speculation; that three thousand dollars had been advanced to him by an elderly gentleman residing somewhere in his neighborhood,—the name of that elderly gentleman he never mentioned to me; and he stated that he was going to Europe, to Liverpool, and would probably remain there only two weeks to transact his business: from Liverpool he would go to Nassau; from Nassau to Matamoras, Mexico, to find his brother Isaac, who was in the rebel army.
Q. His brother?
A. Yes, sir: his brother is in Magruder’s army, in Texas, and has been there since 1861.
Q. Did not his brother go to Texas before the Rebellion? or do you know?
A. I do not know.
Q. You have never seen the brother?
A. I never saw the brother.
Q. Were you in the habit of seeing John H. Surratt almost every day when he was at home, at his mother’s?
A. Yes, sir: he would be seated at the same table.
Q. Was he frequently in your room, and you in his?
A. He partook of the same room, shared my bed with me, slept with me.
Q. And during the whole of that period you never heard him intimate that it was his purpose, or that there was a purpose, to assassinate the President?
A. No, sir. At one time he mentioned to me that he was going on the stage with Booth; that he was going to be an actor; and that they were going to play in Richmond.
Q. You say that he had been educated at what college?
A. At St. Charles’s College, Maryland.
Q. A Catholic college?
A. Yes, sir. He was a student of divinity for three years.
Q. Were you a student of divinity with him?
A. Yes, sir. I was there a year longer than he was.
Q. During the whole of that period, what was his character?
A. His character was excellent. On leaving college, he shed tears; and the president approached him, and told him not to weep; that his conduct had been so excellent during the three years he had been there, that he would always be remembered by those who had charge of the institution.
Q. When was the first of the two occasions on which, you say, you drove Mrs. Surratt to Surrattsville?
A. The first occasion was on Tuesday, the 11th of April.
Q. Did she tell you what her object in going was?
A. She told me she had some business with a man by the name of Nothe. This man Nothe, she told me, owed her a sum of money, about four hundred and seventy-nine dollars, and the interest on it for thirteen years, as near as I can remember.
Q. Was there such a man there?
A. Yes, sir: there is a man resides in that portion of the country by the name of Nothe.
Q. Do you know whether she saw him when she went on that occasion?
A. We arrived at the village about half-past twelve o’clock; but Mr. Nothe was not there. She told Mr. Nott, the bar-keeper, to send a messenger for him; and he immediately sent a mounted messenger to Mr. Nothe. In the mean time, Mrs. Surratt, and myself went to Captain Gwynn’s place, about three miles lower down, and remained there about two hours, taking dinner. Mrs. Surratt stated that she would like to have Captain Gwynn return with her; and Captain Gwynn did return with us.
Q. To Surrattsville?
A. Yes, sir; and, on returning, Mrs. Surratt and Captain Gwynn found Mr. Nothe in the parlor, and there they transacted their business. I was not a witness to it.
Q. There was such a man living there, and she did see him?
A. Yes, sir: she saw him on that day,—she so stated.
Q. You knew the man when you saw him?
A. No, sir.
Q. Was he not pointed out to you?
A. No, sir: I have never seen him.
Q. I thought you said he was at Surrattsville?
A. Mr. Nott said he was in the parlor.
Q. You did not go in?
A. No, sir: I did not go in.
Q. Did she state to you what her purpose was in making the second visit?
A. She said, when she rapped at my room on that afternoon, that she had received a letter from Charles Calvert with regard to this money that was due her by Mr. Nothe.
Q. The same debt?
A. Yes, sir; and she stated that she was again compelled to go to the country, and she asked me to bring her down; and, of course, I consented.
Q. Did she tell you that the letter was from Calvert?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see it?
A. No, sir: I did not see the letter.
Q. She said she had received a letter from Mr. Charles Calvert?
A. Yes, sir; and that it concerning this man Nothe.
Q. That required her, as she thought, to go to Surrattsville?
A. Yes, sir. That is all I know about the letter.
Q. Did you go in a buggy?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Nobody but yourself and Mrs. Surratt?
A. No one but ourselves.
Q. Did you take any thing with you,—any weapons of any sort?
A. No weapons. She took two packages. One was a package of papers about her property at Surrattsville; and then another was a package which was done up in paper, about six inches, I should think, in diameter. It looked to me like a saucer or two, or two or three saucers, wrapped in paper. That was deposited in the bottom of the buggy, and taken out by Mrs. Surratt when we arrived at Surrattsville.
Q. That is all, you say?
A. That is all I know of.
Q. How long did you remain there?
A. We remained there until half-past six o’clock.
Q. It was not dark at that time?
A. No, sir: it was not dark.
Q. At what time did you reach here?
A. We reached here at about half-past eight or nine o’clock.
Q. When did you hear, or did you hear, of the assassination of the President, and the attack on Secretary Seward, that evening?
A. I heard of the assassination of President Lincoln and the attack on Secretary Seward at three o’clock on Saturday morning, when the detectives came to the house and informed us of it.
Q. And not until that?
A. Not until that time.
Q. Who came to the house between the period of your return and three o’clock on Saturday morning when the detectives came? Anybody?
A. There was some one that rang the bell; but who the person was I do not know.
Q. Was the bell answered?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. By whom?
A. It was answered by Mrs. Surratt.
Q. Was there any one at the door?
A. Yes, sir: I heard steps going into the parlor, and immediately going out, going down the steps.
Q. How long was that after you had got back from Surrattsville?
A. It must have been about ten minutes. I was taking supper at the time.
Q. That was before ten o’clock, was it not?
A. Yes, sir: it was before ten o’clock.
Q. Before what is understood to have been the time of the assassination?
A. Yes, sir. The assassination is said to have taken place at half-past ten. It was before that time.
Q. Have persons been in the habit of going there for rooms, and staying a day or two?
A. Persons have been in the habit of coming from the country and stopping at the house. Mrs. Surratt had a great many acquaintances, and was always very hospitable; and they could remain just as long as they chose.
Q. The man who took the room, you say, was Atzerodt?
A. Atzerodt, to my knowledge, stopped in the house only one night.
Q. Did he take a room?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did he sleep there one night?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What room did he sleep in?
A. A room in the third story,—a back room.
Q. Was there anybody there with him in that room?
A. No, sir: there was no one in that room.
Q. Then he had a room there that night?
A. Yes, sir: he had a room that night.
Q. Did he leave there the next day?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You saw Payne yourself when he came there?
A. The first time I saw that man, he gave the name of Wood. I saw Payne myself. I went to the door, and opened the door; and he said he would like to see Mrs. Surratt.
Q. As he was dressed at that time, was his appearance genteel?
A. Yes, sir. He had a long black coat on; and when he went into the parlor, he acted very politely. He asked Mrs. Surratt to play on the piano; and he raised the piano-cover, and did every thing which indicated a person of breeding.
Q. Do you know why Atzerodt left the house?
A. No, sir.
Q. Had he been with any one drinking in the room he got, or either of the rooms up stairs?
A. Yes, sir. The time he stopped in the house was about the beginning of February; and at that time there was a man there by the name of Howell. Mr. John Surratt had been in the country, and he returned from the country that evening; and John Surratt slept that night with Howell.
Q. What I asked was, whether there was any drinking in the room?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was that the room occupied by Atzerodt?
A Yes, sir.
Q. Were they noisy at all?
A. No, sir; not noisy.
Q. Have you any knowledge that he was told he could not stay there any longer?
A. No, sir.
Q. You did not hear that from any of the family?
A. No, sir.
Q. But he did leave there the next day?
A. Yes, sir: he left the next day. His leaving was owing to the arrival of Mr. Surratt at that time, as near as I could judge. He said he wanted to see John; and, as soon as he saw John, he left.
Q. You did not hear from Mrs. Surratt, or any of the family, that she had told John he could not stay there?
A. No, sir; not at that time. I heard Miss Anna and Mrs. Surratt afterwards say, that they did not care about having him brought to the house.
Q. Was that before the assassination?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What reason did they give for not wishing him brought to the house?
A. The way Miss Anna Surratt expressed it, she said she did not care about having such sticks brought to the house; that they were not company for her.
Q. He never did go there afterwards, that you know of?
A. He has not been to the house, to the best of my knowledge, since the 2d of April.
Q. You say you found upon your own table a false mustache. What was the color of the hair?
A. It was black.
Q. Was it a large or diminutive mustache?
A. It was about a medium-sized mustache. It was not a very small one, nor was it what I would call a very large one.
Q. Was it so large that it would entirely change the appearance of the wearer?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You think it was?
A. I think so.
Q. You took that off the table where you found it; and you put it in your own box, where you had your paints?
A. Yes, sir: I put it first in my toilet-box, a box standing on the table; and afterwards removed it from that box, and put it in a box of paints which was in my trunk.
Q. And you have kept it ever since?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When he came home, as I understood you, he seemed to be feeling for something; said he had lost something. Did he not ask for the mustache?
A. Yes, sir: he said, “Where is my mustache?”
Q. Why did you not give it to him? It was not yours.
A. No, sir: it was not mine.
Q. Why did you not give it to him? Did you suspect him at that time of intending any thing wrong?
A. I thought it rather queer that a Baptist preacher should use a mustache; and I did not care about having false mustaches lying round on my table.
Q. But you locked it up?
A. I know I locked it up.
Q. What did you intend to do with it?
A. I did not intend to do anything with it. I took it, and exhibited it to some of the clerks in the office the day afterwards, and was fooling with it. I put on a pair of spectacles and the mustache, and was making fun of it.
Q. Your only reason for not giving it to him, when he said it was his, was, that you thought it was singular that a Baptist preacher should be fooling with a mustache?
A. Yes, sir; and I did not want a false mustache about my room.
Q. It would not have been about your room if you had given it to him, would it?
A. No, sir.
Q. That would have taken it out of your room; but, to keep it out of your room, you locked it up in a box, and kept the box with you?
A. Then, again, I thought no honest person had any reason to wear a false mustache.
Q. Can you describe to the Court young Surratt, his height and general appearance?
A. He is about six feet high, with a very prominent forehead, a very large nose, with his eyes sunken. He has a goatee, and very long hair of a light color.
Q. Do you recollect how he was dressed the day he told you he was going to Montreal?
A. He had on cream-colored pants, a gray coat.
Q. An overcoat?
A. No, sir, a frock coat; a gray vest; and then he had a shawl thrown over it.
Q. A Scotch shawl, or plaid shawl?
A. One of these plaid shawls.
Q. He went to Richmond, you say, some time towards the latter part of March; and when he got back here, the fact of the fall of Richmond had reached here, and you saw in his possession some twenty-dollar pieces?
A. I saw nine or eleven twenty-dollar gold-pieces.
Q. Did he tell you from whom he got them?
A. No, sir: I did not make any inquiries.
Q. He told you, however, that he had seen Jefferson Davis and Benjamin. Did you understand Benjamin to be the man who was acting as Secretary of State there? Did he refer to him as an official of the Rebel Government?
A. He merely said he had seen Benjamin and Davis, and they had told him that Richmond would not be evacuated. That is the exact language he used at the time.
Q. Did he tell you he had any communication with them at all on business?
A. No, sir: he said nothing further than that.
Q. You did not ask him, and he did not volunteer to tell you, how he got that money?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know, or not, that he had not the gold when he left here?
A. I know he had no gold about him when he left here.
Q. And he came back with ten or eleven twenty-dollar gold-pieces?
A. Yes, sir. He gave two of them—forty dollars—to Mr. Holahan, who had a room adjoining; and Mr. Holahan gave him sixty dollars in greenbacks for them. Mr. Holahan also saw the gold.
Q. What is the date, or did you give the date, of the letter which his mother has received from him since he went to Canada?
A. Yes, sir: the letter was dated “St. Lawrence Hall, Montreal, C. E., April 12,” and was received here April 14.
Q. The day of the assassination?
A. Yes, sir. The evening of the assassination it was shown to me.
Q. Did you become acquainted with the date of the letter from a memorandum on the envelope, or from the letter being opened?
A. I saw the heading in the letter. Mrs. Surratt permitted me to read the letter.
Q. State what the letter contained.
A. The letter was written in general terms. He stated that he was much pleased with the city of Montreal; that he was much pleased with the French cathedral there; that he had bought a French pea-jacket, for which he paid ten dollars in silver; that board was too high at St. Lawrence Hall,—two dollars and a half a day in gold; that he would probably go to some private boarding-house, or that he would soon go to Toronto.
Q. There was nothing in that letter which indicated any purpose of his, or anybody else, to commit murder?
A. No, sir: the letter was signed John Harrison,—not his whole name.
Q. Is that his name in part?
A. His name is John Harrison Surratt.
Q. Was he not called by his Christian name by his mother?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you understand that the letter to Miss Ward, before referred to by you, went direct to her, and did not go to her through his mother? Was it directed to her?
A. It was directed to Miss Anna Ward.
Q. And received in the usual course, as you supposed?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you know what that letter was about?
A. No, sir.
Q. You never saw, and never heard from Mrs. Surratt, what it was?
A. I merely heard Mrs. Surratt say that Miss Anna Ward had received a letter from John.
Q. What it was you do not know?
A. What I was I do not know.
Q. You have known Mrs. Surratt ever since November, and before that?
A. I have known her since 1863.
Q. You have been living at her house since November?
A. Since November.
Q. During the whole of that time, as far as you could judge, was her character apparently good and amiable?
A. Her character was exemplary and ladylike in every particular.
Q. Was she a member of the church?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. A regular attendant?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Of the Catholic Church?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Are you a Catholic?
A. Yes, sir: I am a Catholic.
Q. Have you been to church with her?
A. I generally accompanied her to church every Sunday.
Q. As far, then, as you could judge, her conduct, in a religious and in a moral sense, was altogether exemplary?
A. Yes, sir. She went to her religious duties at least every two weeks.
Q. Did she go early in the morning?
A. Sometimes early in the morning, and sometimes at late mass.
Q. Was that the case during the whole period up to the assassination?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Then, if I understand you, from November up to the 14th of April, whenever she was here, she was regular in her attendance at her own church, and apparently, as far as you could judge, doing all her duties to God and to man?
A. Yes, sir.
Cross-examined by MR. EWING:
Q. What time was it that you said Dr. Mudd introduced Booth to yourself and Surratt?
A. It was on or about the 15th of January, as near as I can remember.
Q. Have you any means of fixing the exact date?
A. Yes, sir: I could fix the exact date if reference could be had to the register of the Pennsylvania House, where Dr. Mudd had a room at that time.
Q. Are you sure that it was before the 1st of February?
A. Yes, sir: I am sure.
Q. Are you sure it was after the 1st of January?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Why are you sure?
A. From a letter I received at that time, that I had received about the 16th of January, and from a visit I had made to Baltimore, and circumstances which took place about that time; and then, again, it was immediately after the recess of Congress. The room that was occupied by Booth at the hotel had been previously occupied by a Congressman. He walked around the room, put his hand on the shelf, and pulled out some Congressional documents, and he made the remark, “What a good read I shall have when I am left to myself!”
Q. You are certain that it was the Congressional holiday vacation?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Have you any other means of knowing that it was after the 1st of January?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you any means of knowing that it was after Christmas?
A. Merely by the fact of its being after the Congressional holidays, and this member had not returned. The other Congressmen had nearly all returned; and he was one whose return had been delayed for some time, it appears.
Q. How do you know that?
A. As near as I can understand, the Congressional holidays last for about a week, or perhaps two weeks.
Q. Who said any thing about the member not having returned?
A. Mr. Booth.
Q. Do you know who the member was?
A. No, sir: I do not. There were books lying on the table,—Congressional documents; and the room had been previously occupied, so Booth said, by a member of Congress.
Q. How do you know that the members had pretty much all returned?
A. Because Congress was in session at the time.
Q. How do you happen to recollect that it was in session at the time of this interview?
A. I have no particular way of recollecting it, except according to my memory. I do not recollect it by any external facts.
Q. How does the interview connect itself in your mind with the session of Congress, so that you are able to say that Congress was in session at the time?
A. Merely because Mr. Booth got out of his chair, and went to this table; and he took some documents off the top of the desk, and said he, “Congressional documents! What a good read I shall have when I am left to myself!” Booth said the room had been previously occupied by a member of Congress. It was the very first day of Booth’s arrival in the city, and of his taking possession of that room.
Q. It was the first day of his arrival in the city?
A. So I understood.
Q. And the first day he had taken possession of that room?
A. Yes, sir: so I understood from him.
Q. Did Booth say any thing about the member of Congress being absent from the city on vacation?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you recollect that it was after the Congressional holiday as distinctly as you recollect any part of the conversation?
A. I do not recollect that fact as distinctly as I do recollect the conversation about the purchase of the farm.
Q. Have you no memorandum of your own that would enable you to fix the date?
A. No, sir. The date could be probably fixed by a reference to the register at the Pennsylvania house. Dr. Mudd had rooms at the Pennsylvania House at that time.
Q. On what street was it that you met Dr. Mudd?
A. I met him on Seventh Street, directly opposite Odd Fellows’ Hall.
Q. What did Dr. Mudd say in explanation of the introduction? Any thing?
A. Nothing that I can remember. Mr. Surratt introduced him to me, and he introduced Booth to both of us; and then Booth invited us down to the National Hotel.
Q. Which introduction came first?
A. The introduction of Dr. Mudd by Mr. Surratt to me came first.
Q. And did Booth immediately invite you all to his room?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What was said by Booth, if any thing, why you should go to his room?
A. Nothing that I remember.
Q. He did not give any reason for wishing you to go?
A. No, sir: he did not give any reason to me. In going down Seventh Street, Mr. Surratt took Dr. Mudd’s arm, and I walked with Booth.
Q. You went directly to Booth’s room?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long, in all, did you stay there?
A. That I cannot say exactly. I suppose the conversation must have lasted about three-quarters of an hour.
Q. You say that Dr. Mudd wrote something on a piece of paper?
A. I say that Booth took an envelope out of his pocket, and took a pencil; and he drew, as it were, lines on the back of this envelope, and Mr. Surratt and Dr. Mudd were looking at him whilst he was doing it; and they were engaged in a deep conversation,—private conversation: it was scarcely audible.
Q. You were in the room at the time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How close were you to them?
A. I was a close to them as that gentleman sitting at the far window is to me. [Pointing to Judge Advocate General Holt,—a distance of about eight feet.]
Q. What was the conversation about?
A. That I do not know.
Q. You said it was “scarcely audible:” was it not, in part, audible?
A. It was an indistinct murmur.
Q. You heard none of it?
A. No, sir. I heard none of the conversation.
Q. Which one went out with Dr. Mudd first?
A. Booth.
Q. Are you sure?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How long were they out together?
A. As near as I can judge, not more than five or eight minutes.
Q. Where did they go?
A. They went into a passage right along the room,—a dark passage,—a passage that leads to the front of the room there.
Q. Do you know that they stopped there?
A. That I do not know, because the door closed after them.
Q. You mean simply that the door opened on to this passage?
A. The door opened on to this passage; and, from their movement, I should judge that the remained outside.
Q. What makes you think so?
A. Because I did not hear any retreating footsteps.
Q. Did you listen to hear retreating footsteps?
A. Yes, sir: I listened. If they had gone down stairs, a person would have naturally supposed that a noise would have been made with their feet; and then, again, they did not take their hats.
Q. How far were they from the stairs?
A. That I do not know.
Q. After they returned, how long was it before Surratt went out?
A. Surratt went out almost immediately after their return.
Q. How long did the three stay out then together?
A. They would have staid out about the same length of time as at the first interview.
Q. Are you sure that Booth was with them when they went out the second time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did Dr. Mudd say nothing as to how he came to introduce Booth to Surratt?
A. No, sir.
Q. Which one of them was it that said the business between Booth and Mudd was, that Booth wanted to buy Mudd’s farm?
A. Dr. Mudd came and apologized to me for his private interview; and he himself said that the business was, that Mr. Booth wanted to purchase his farm, and that Booth was not willing to offer him a sufficiently high price, and that he did not care about selling it.
Q. You had never seen Mudd before?
A. No, sir: I had never seen him.
Q. Had you heard him spoken of in Mrs. Surratt’s house?
A. I had heard the name Mudd mentioned; but whether it was this Dr. Samuel Mudd I cannot say.
Q. Did you hear it mentioned in connection with any visit to the house?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know whether, in fact, he did visit the house, have you any reason to suppose that he did, during the time you were there?
A. No, sir.
Q. Where did Mrs. Surratt formerly live?
A. She lived at Surrattsville.
Q. Is that on the road to Bryantown?
A. I cannot say whether it is on the road to Bryantown or not, because I have never been at Bryantown, and I am not sufficiently acquainted with roads in the country there to give the information. I have never been any farther than Piscataway.
Q. Do you know whether it is on the road to the place where Dr. Mudd lives?
A. There are several ways of arriving at Dr. Mudd’s place. You can take one road that I am acquainted with, that leads to Piscataway, called the Port Tobacco Road; and that would lead to his house.
Q. How far is Dr. Mudd’s house from this city?
A. That I do not know. I have never been at his house. All I know of his house is, that he lived in Charles County, Md.
Q. How far is Surrattsville from the city?
A. It is about ten miles from the Navy-yard Bridge.
Q. Did you ever hear Dr. Mudd spoken of as being in the city?
A. No, sir.
Q. You heard the name of Mudd mentioned in the family?
A. Yes, sir. I have heard the name of Mudd,—Dr. George Mudd and Dr. Samuel Mudd. I have met Dr. Samuel Mudd only once, and that was the occasion referred to of meeting Booth.
Q. After Booth and Surratt and Mudd returned from the passage outside, or from outside, how long did you remain in the room together then?
A. That I do not know.
Q. About how long?
A. Probably twenty minutes
Q. And then where did you go?
A. Then we left the National Hotel, and went to the Pennsylvania House, where Dr. Mudd had rooms. We all went into the sitting-room; and Dr. Mudd came and sat down with me, and we talked about the war. He expressed an opinion that the war would soon come to an end, and spoke like a Union man. Booth was speaking to Surratt. Booth then bade us good-night, and went out; and then Surratt and I bade Dr. Mudd good-night, and he remained there, and left the next morning.
Q. He left the next morning?
A. He said he was going to leave the next morning. Whether he left or not, I do not know.
Q. At what time was it that you separated?
A. It must have been about half-past ten o’clock in the evening.
Q. Was Booth talking when he was drawing those lines that you speak of?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He was in conversation?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And Mudd and Surratt were attending?
A. Yes, sir: they were all three sitting around the table; and they were looking at what Booth was marking with his pencil, and talking.
Q. Are you sure they were looking at what Booth was marking with his pencil? or were they simply attending to what Booth was saying, their eyes resting on the paper? Did you observe it close enough to swear at to that?
A. They looked at the envelope, and they look at the motions of the pencil: I could swear to that.
Q. Their eyes were on the envelope?
A. Yes, sir: their eyes were on the envelope.
Q. And Booth was talking at the same time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How close were you to them?
A. As I have stated, I was about as close to them as I am to that gentleman there. [Pointing to Judge Advocate General Holt.]
Q. What distance in feet?
A. Perhaps eight feet.
Q. Did they watch you?
A. No, sir.
Q. How large was the room?
A. I have no means of arriving at that.
Q. About how large?
A. I should think the room was about half the size of this one. By running a partition across this room, you would about get the size of that room.
Q. Do you mean half as large as this whole room?
A. Yes, sir. By drawing a partition across the room here, near the middle pillar, you might get an idea of the true proportion of it, so as to give an idea of the size of the room.
Q. In what part of the room was the table?
A. The table was in the centre.
Cross-examined by MR. STONE:
Q. You say that you saw Mr. Herold in the summer of 1863 down at Mrs. Surratt’s, at Surrattsville?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At a sort of serenade there,—a musical party?
A. It was at the time of the election of the county officers. There was a band that had gone down from the city to serenade the officers who had been elected; and this band stopped during the night at Mrs. Surratt’s on going down, and serenaded us; and it was on that occasion that John Surratt introduced Herold to me. Herold was with his party.
Q. You saw him, you say, once in Mrs. Surratt’s house after she moved to the city?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And only once?
A. Only once.
Q. The third time you saw him was at the theatre?
A. Yes, sir: I saw him at the theatre. I also saw him once, in July, at a church in the country, the Piscataway Church. He had been to church there; and, when he came out, he got on his horse, and rode off.
Q. When you left the theatre that night, you all walked down the street together a portion of the way, as I understood you?
A. There were five of us left the theatre together,—Mr. Surratt, Mr. Holahan, and I in company, and Atzerodt and Herold behind. When Surratt, Holahan, and I arrived at the corner of Tenth and E Streets, Surratt turned round and saw that the other two were not following; and he told me to go back and find them. I went back, and found them in the restaurant, engaged in close conversation with Booth.
Q. They had met Booth in the restaurant?
A. Yes, sir. On my approaching them, Booth asked me to go and take a drink with them; and the four of us approached the counter, and Mr. Booth introduced a man to me, whose name I do not remember, but whose face is familiar to me. I have seen him frequently about the town.
Q. You did take a drink?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you went into the restaurant, you say, they were standing in close conversation. Do you mean standing close together?
A. Yes, sir: the three of them were standing together; and they were conversing, as it were, very privately.
Q. Were they standing near the door?
A. No, sir: they were standing near the stove.
Q. Was it a cool evening?
A. No, sir: no fire had been kindled in the stove. It was a very pleasant evening.
Q. Booth did not leave the theatre with you?
A. No, sir.
Q. You do not know whether Herold and Atzerodt had taken a drink with Booth before you came in?
A. No, sir: I am not aware of that.
Q. When you left the restaurant, did you all leave together?
A. Herold, Atzerodt, and I left together; and we overtook Mr. Holahan and Mr. Surratt on E Street. Then we went to Kloman’s, on Seventh Street; and Mr. Holahan invited us to take some oysters, and we took oysters over there. Then Holahan, Surratt, and myself went home, and Atzerodt and Herold went down Seventh Street.
Q. Do you know where Mr. Herold lived?
A. I was at his house only once. I knew that he lived at the Navy Yard; but the precise spot I did not know. I was at his house on Saturday, the 15th of April, with a detective officer by the name of McDevitt; and he, at that time, procured Herold’s photograph.
Cross-examined by MR. CLAMPITT:
Q. You remarked, that one evening, in company with Mr. Booth, you went to the National Hotel?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was Booth called out, on that occasion, by Surratt, or by Dr. Mudd?
A. Booth was called out by Dr. Mudd, as near as I can remember.
Q. Did you not say that he was also called out by Surratt?
A. The three of them then went out together.
Q. Was Surratt in company with you at the time that you went to the National Hotel?
A. He was.
Q. Was Dr. Mudd in company with you?
A. Dr. Mudd, Mr. Booth, Surratt, and myself were all in company. In going down Seventh Street, Surratt joined Dr. Mudd, and I went with Booth. We went down together, and entered the room.
Q. Then, if I understand you correctly, Dr. Mudd immediately after you entered the hotel, called Mr. Booth out?
A. I could not say that it was immediately after.
Q. Well, within a few minutes, or a short time,—half an hour?
A. I have said that wines and cigars were first ordered.
Q. You were then all in the room together, at one time?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then Dr. Mudd walked out, and called Booth out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And then Surratt called him out?
A. I did not say that Surratt called him out. Surratt was called out. They came in, and Surratt was called out.
Q. And you were left alone?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. After their return to the room, was any thing else remarked to you, with the exception of the apology of Dr. Mudd, about their meeting outside?
A. Booth offered an apology to me also, stating that he wished to buy Dr. Mudd’s farm. Apologies were offered to me both by Dr. Mudd and Booth.
Q. There was nothing that led you to believe that there was any thing like a conspiracy going on between them?
A. No, sir.
Q. You remarked that sometimes you were in company with Mrs. Surratt at the time these parties would call to see her. Do you ever remember of Mrs. Surratt seeking an opportunity to have a private conversation with Booth or any of his accomplices?
A. On the 2d of April, she sent me to the hotel, and told me to tell Mr. Booth she would like to see him on some private business; and Mr. Booth called at her house that evening, which was Sunday.
Q. In reference to the ten dollars that was offered to you to hire a buggy with by Booth, did you accept it?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you suppose it was any thing more or less than an act of kindness or friendship?
A. I thought it was an act of friendship at the time. I had been told that Booth was in the habit of keeping a buggy at Brooks’s stable; and, on going to the hotel that morning, I said to Booth, “I am come with an order for that buggy that Mrs. Surratt asked you for last evening.” Said he, “I have sold my buggy; but here is ten dollars, and you can go and hire one.” I never told Mrs. Surratt that.
Q. At what time did you go to Montreal?
A. We went to Montreal on the 18th of April, the Monday after the assassination.
Q. What business had you there?
A. We went for the purpose of seeking John Surratt.
Q. Did you find him?
A. No, sir: we did not find him.
Q. Did you ever see Mrs. Surratt leaving the parlor to have a private interview with Booth?
A. I have heard Booth ask Mrs. Surratt to spare him a word; and Mrs. Surratt would go into the passage, and talk with Booth.
Q. How much time would those conversations occupy?
A. Generally, not more than five or eight minutes.
Cross-examined by MR. AIKEN:
Q. At the time you went to Surrattsville, on the 14th of April last, did you transact any business for Mrs. Surratt while there?
A. I wrote one letter to this man Nothe.
Q. What was in it?
A. Only, “Mr. Nothe. Sir,—Unless you come forward and pay that bill at once, I will bring suit against you immediately.”
Q. Did you do any thing else for her?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you make up a sum in interest?
A. Yes, sir: I figured up a sum in interest,—the interest on the sum of four hundred and seventy-nine dollars for thirteen years.
Cross-examined by MR. DOSTER:
Q. You have mentioned an interview at the theatre between Atzerodt and Booth, and, as I understood you, with Surratt and Payne at the same time.
A. It was not Payne. It was Booth and Herold and Atzerodt. Payne was not there.
Q. Was that at the theatre?
A. It was in the restaurant adjoining the theatre.
Q. Do you know what passed at that interview?
A. No, sir.
Q. It was entirely outside of your hearing?
A. Yes, sir. When I approached them, they separated, and asked me to take a drink.
Q. Were you present at any other interview between Atzerodt and Booth?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Can you tell us what passed there?
A. No, sir.
Q. You do not know any thing about it?
A. No, sir.
Q. Can you tell us of any interview Atzerodt had with Surratt?
A. Atzerodt has been to the house frequently, and had interviews with Surratt in the parlor.
Q. Do you know what passed there?
A. No, sir.
Q. You do not any thing about it?
A. No, sir: I do not know any thing about it.
Q. Did you know of any interviews between Payne and Atzerodt?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. State where they were.
A. It was on the occasion of Payne’s last visit to the house. Atzerodt came to see Surratt once; and they were in my room, and they were talking there.
Q. What did they say?
A. That I do not know.
Q. You do not know of any conversation that passed between Atzerodt and Booth, or between Atzerodt and Payne, having reference to a conspiracy?
A. No, sir. Surratt was continually speaking about cotton speculations, and of going to Europe; and I heard Atzerodt once remark that he was also going to Europe, but he was going there on horseback. From that remark, I concluded that he was going South.
Q. Have you ever heard, in conversation, any reference to the assignment of Atzerodt to the assassination of Vice-President Johnson?
A. No, sir.
Q. Have you ever heard of any conversation having reference to Payne’s assignment to the assassination of the Secretary of State?
A. No, sir.
Q. You say, that, at half-past two o’clock on the afternoon of the 14th, you saw Atzerodt at the livery-stable trying to get a horse?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he say what he was going to do with the horse?
A. He said he was going to ride out into the country.
Q. You stated that he did not get any horse then?
A. The stable-keeper, in my presence, refused to let him have one.
Q. Do you know whether he succeeded in getting any horse that same day?
A That I do not know. I know he did not succeed in getting a horse at that particular stable.
Q. When did you part with him?—how soon after that?
A. I parted with him immediately.
Q. At the stable?
A. At the post-office. I dropped a letter in the post-office, and I came back.
Q. Was that the last interview you had with him before the assassination?
A. Yes, sir: that was the last interview.
Q. When did you see him again?
A. In the dock here, to-day.
Q. You say you recognize the spur that was exhibited to you, as having been seen on the bed in the room of Payne, at the house of Mrs. Surratt?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What makes you recognize that spur? What marks are there on it that distinguish it from spurs in general?
A. No particular marks. The spur is familiar to me.
Q. How far were you from the spurs when you saw it?
A. I had them in my hand.
Q. And the knife also?
A. No, sir: I did not have that in my hand. I took up a sword Mr. Surratt had on the mantle-piece, and commenced fencing with him.
Q. I understood you to swear that you had seen that knife before in the room of Mr. Payne?
A. No, sir: I saw two bowie-knives; and, when I returned from my office at four o’clock, and went up in the room, I found Surratt and Payne playing on the bed with these bowie-knives, and with two revolvers, and four sets of spurs.
Q. Do you know that that was one them? [Exhibiting to the witness the knife identified by John Lee.]
A. I cannot say: I did not say that I recognized that as one of the knives.
Q. Do you say that the pistol shown to you was the identical pistol that was on the bed that day?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know where Payne was stopping on the 14th of April. Do you know any thing about Payne on that day?
A. Yes, sir. I remember that I asked Atzerodt where he was going, and he said he was going to ride in the country; and he said he was going to get a horse, and send for Payne.
Q. I want to know where Payne was on that day.
A. I do not know any thing about it. I do not know where he was. I have seen this man Payne only on two occasions.
Q. Where was Atzerodt stopping on that day? Did he tell you, when you saw him at the livery-stable?
A. No, sir.
Q. He did not speak of the place where he was stopping?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know of his having stopped at the Herndon house; and, if so, how long?
A. I know of his having stopped at the Herndon House, because this man Atzerodt told me so. I stated that I met Atzerodt one day in Seventh Street, and I asked him where he was going. He said he was going to see Payne. I asked him, “Was it Payne who was at the Herndon House?” He said, ‘Yes.”
Q. You say that Payne paid a visit to the Surratts, and stopped only over night during his first visit?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. With whom did he seem to have business?
A. He inquired for Mr. Surratt. His business appeared to be with Mr. Surratt. On the occasion of his first visit, I was in the parlor during the whole time.
Q. He did not appear to have any thing to say to Mrs. Surratt?
A. He asked Mrs. Surratt to play on the piano for him; and he raised the piano-cover.
Q. Did he have, besides that false mustache you speak of, any other disguise going to show that he wanted to conceal himself?
A. No, sir.
Q. Nothing that you saw?
A. Nothing.
Q. Did you see Payne after the assassination until to-day?
A. I did not.
Q. Was he treated by Mr. Surratt as an intimate friend?
A. He appeared to be treated kindly by Mr. Surratt, as if he was an old acquaintance. On the occasion of his second visit to the house, Mr. Surratt, when meeting him, recognized him as though he had known him.
Q. You say he represented himself to be a Baptist minister. Did the family regard him as a man in disguise? or did they regard him as a Baptist minister?
A. That I do not know. One of the young ladies looked at him, and remarked that he was a queer-looking Baptist preacher; that he would not convert many souls.
Q. Did you ever see Payne and Atzerodt in company?
A. Yes, sir. Atzerodt was at the house on the occasion of Payne’s last visit.
Q. Did they have any communication to your knowledge?
A. I saw them talking in my own room.
Q. But you do not know any thing of their conversation?
A. I do not.
By the JUDGE ADVOCATE:
Q. How long did you say the interview between Payne and Atzerodt lasted?
A. I did not give any time.
Q. Will you state now how long they were together?
A. I supposed Atzerodt must have been in the house about an hour: it was on the occasion of Payne’s last visit. To my recollection, he was in the house only twice. Atzerodt came into the house one evening, had a talk with Payne and Surratt, and stopped about an hour.
Q. Were they together in their room, or in the parlor, or where?
A. They were together in their room.
Q. Were you, or not, at Mrs. Surratt’s when Payne was arrested for the assassination?
A. No, sir: I was not. I was out of the city at that time.
Q. You were there when the officers came and took possession of Mrs. Surratt’s house, were you not?
A. I was not. When the city officers came at three o’clock on Saturday morning, I was there. I thought you had reference to the government officers, Colonel Foster and others.
Q. Payne was not there then?
A. He was not.
By the COURT:
Q. You spoke of your “office:” what profession or business do you follow?
A. I was a clerk in the office of the Commissary General of Prisoners, General Hoffman; and had been since Jan. 9, 1864.
​
